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Published by JPE Advertising

Volume 1 - Issue 111 - Monday, October 6, 2003

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What A Day!
The Weather's grand all over the net.

Welcome to The WebPro Times. The ezine where business people, opportunity seekers, entrepreneurs and professional marketers meet.



Our Format for the WebPro Times is:

--> Editors Article
--> Guest Article (as they are approved)
--> Janes Jingle
--> Contest of the Day (win prizes)
--> Smart Tip of the Day
--> Smart Resources of the Day
--> Smart Fre.ebie of the Day
--> Continuing Saga of J and P
--> Feedback


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Web Pro Times - Issue 111, October 6, 2003

Wingless JV's Simply Won't Fly.

A few weeks ago we wrote an article on what you should bring to the table when you are contemplating doing a joint venture with a partner. You can read that article in our archives called... "What are you bringing the Table?"

We want to continue on for a bit this week on joint ventures and get into a little more detail on what you need to bring to the table and what you need to shove under the table if you want to make joint ventures that fly.

The first thing you need to do, when making a joint venture offer, is to step into your partners shoes and see if you like what he is wearing. If you submit a deal to someone that you would not undertake yourself or give your time and energy to, chances are your potential partner won't bite. Even if you might be able to con someone into doing a deal with you by a whole lot of hype and hocus pocus, you will regret it down the road. Don't do it.

When you do a joint venture deal with someone where they feel excited about joining you and comfortable in what you are doing, you can gain a partner for life. When you try to skim the last dime from your partner, you will find that not only will the partnership dissolve but you will gain a reputation on the net as someone to avoid at all costs. Nothing is worth that.


Okay, lets say you have decided you have a great idea and you want someone to join you and make it happen. The idea could be:

  1. I want to grow my list as fast as possible or
  2. I want someone to promote my product
  3. I want a programmer to develop a script but I can't afford it
  4. I want a website built but I don't know how.

All of the above can be developed into partnerships with the right people and the right offer. The first thing you want to do when you contact a potential partner is to state your goal clearly.

"Hello Joe Jones.
I have an ezine. I would like to increase my subscriber base.

I think we can work together on this. Here's how?

I will provide you with a link to my ezine and you provide me a link to yours and we put these links on our websites and as a tag line in our ezines. I think this will be a win/win situation for both of us. Are you interested? If so, please get back to me and we can hammer out the deal.

Best Regards etc..."

This is a very simple joint venture offer.

Now Joe Jones writes back to you.

Hello Jane,

"Your idea interests me. I have an ezine of 50,000 subscribers and I certainly would like to increase my exposure. Tell me more...

Joe Jones."

Whoops! Let's say I have an ezine of 2000 members.

It's not likely that Joe Jones wants to put his link on my ezine of 2000 in exchange for my link to his 50,000. I had better sweeten the deal if I want to keep Joe Jones's attention and his good will.

"Hi Joe,

Thanks for getting back to me. I have an ezine right now of only 2000 members. I would like to have my link on your site, but I realize that that would not reasonable under the circumstances. Here is what I propose.

If you will carry my link, I will run an ad of your choosing to my subscriber base once a week for 4 months as well as carry your link. You can make some money on products you are offering in exchange for the larger exposure my link will get from your ezine. Does this sound reasonable? If not please propose and alternative that makes sense to you.


If Joe likes what you are offering, great. If he gets back to you with an alternative, make sure you listen very carefully to what his needs and goals are and make a counter offer that makes sense to him and that meets his needs.

Remember your goal here is to increase your subscriber base. Joe may have a completely different goal i.e. making money from free ads on your list. You want to make sure you try to meet his goal otherwise, down the road you are going to have an unhappy partner on your hands, and that will not help you realize your own goals.

Whenever possible try to meet your partners needs and exceed them if you can. It is not important that the scales balance. Your partner may make more money then you do out of a deal, but if you achieve your goal which is to increase your subscriber base, you have both gotten what you wanted out of the alliance and so has your partner and that is the basis of any good joint venture.


After you have done enough joint ventures, you begin to be able to smell a rat in the way people word their offers or agreements to you. For example my antenna goes up immediately whenever someone proposes an escape clause in a partnership agreement right out of the start gate.

If someone wants to enter a partnership arrangement with you but the first thing on their mind is how they will get out of it if it does not work, I am leery of this. When I go into a partnership, I like to feel both parties are going to work on the venture until they get it right not exercise escape clauses. Be wary of words like, "either party can terminate this agreement if things don't work out or other more pressing events intervene." This person is usually telegraphing to you exactly what they have in mind and that is they are going to use your services for a period of time and then look for the first chance they can to dump you. Or how about this:

An offer comes through to you...

The deal is I will upgrade you to pro on my service in exchange for your advertising my product to your list. All you have to do is send out a few ads. Lets just try it for a few months, if it doesn't work out, I will just downgrade you to a free members and, of course, you will lose your paying downline which will revert to me.

Huh, really???.

You mean you want me to get a whole bunch of paying members in my downline and if you decide I have not done a good enough job, I lose my downline and you keep the money I earned? As Phil would say: "PIGS BUM!"

The negotiation process of any joint venture will tell you a lot about your potential partner. Most people generally have a way of telling you exactly what they have in store for you. Pay attention to the words they use and how they use them. Decline any and all offers you don't feel comfortable with. If you are uncomfortable with an arrangement right from the start, chances are it will be downhill from there. Stay out in the first place. Your time and energy are valuable and getting involved with the wrong people, will just drain you and net you very little in the long run.


  • First look to see if there is a true benefit for both you and your partner. If it feels lopsided to you, it probably is. You want both people to feel they are benefiting from the deal at all times. If one is hesitant, you do not have the basis for a good deal.

  • Start a negotiation with your potential partner. Look to see how he phrases his comments to you. If they are harsh and unyielding, this is probably the way he will treat your customers and you want to stay away from that as it will damage your customer base. If there is a genuine concern about your needs, keep going. Otherwise drop out and go onto the next.

  • Don't be afraid to give more then you get. This can come back to you in a dozen ways if you keep your partners happy and they like working with you.

  • Find out something about your potential partners. Ask to talk to some of their current or previous partners. You'll get the low down if you ask enough people.

  • Call your potential partners on the phone. If you are making a very simple link exchange deal, this may not be necessary, but, if you are entering a more complicated arrangement, it is good to pick up the telephone and hammer out the details that way. You can learn a lot about your partner through the give and take of a telephone conversation.

  • Ask questions and keep asking them until you have the deal completely straight in your own mind. Any partner worth his salt will want you to be 100 percent clear about the deal before proceeding. If it's fuzzy, clear it up so you both understand it.

  • Always, always put your deal in writing. You can write a very simple agreement memorializing the deal, but make sure you do it. Down the road when someone forgets exactly what was said, you will have an agreement to refer to and to be your guideline. This avoids all sort of problems and you must do it even if you know the person you are working with very well.

  • Don't be afraid to say no if the deal doesn't make sense.

Well, that's probably enough to chew on for today.

Go out and make some Joint Ventures with people - just make them carefully and with forethought and you will avoid hassles down the road.

Just remember this. Put yourself in the other guys shoes. If you don't like the deal, don't serve it up to others.


For our new readers: You should know: We always end our articles with a jingle to emphasize the point. You can capture the essence of our articles in the Jane's Jingle section every week.

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Jane's Jingle is the summary and conclusion of the editors article and
generally captures it's essence so if you need to cut to the chase, you can always skip straight to the jingle :-)


If you would not bite, don't send it our way
Keep it in a drawer for another day
When dealing with partners, give them a win
You'll find it works better than vodka or gin.

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Guest articles are seen here when we receive an article that is in keeping with the theme of WebPro Times.

The Sit Back And Do Nothing Approach To Marketing.
(c) Phillip Fuller

I remember the old days in network marketing, where new companies would pop-up, recruiting anyone that had a pulse and could leave a 'dot' on the mirror when held under their nose ... it was considered a bonus if you got two dots (just kidding). They promised, "Don't worry ... we'll build your downline for you."

At first glance. or hearing, that sounds good .. less stress and work for the new recruit.

However, it seems to promote two different thoughts for me.

First, If you're going to do it for me, what in the world do you need me for? And, are you going to put like minded people in my downline ? Isn't this a guaranteed way to build a 'dead leg' ?

Second, Maybe, just maybe, the original recruiter NEEDS your 'Hot List' ... the list of 50 to 100 contacts in your address book ... friends, families, co-workers, etc.

The list EVERY company tells you to make after you've joined.

Don't get me wrong, a list is an EXCELLENT starting place, just be sure to have your upline or sideline on the phone when you contact the TRULY interested

There are now seemingly the same hyped up promises from some programs on the internet. E-mail your contacts about XYZ, let our sales letters do the work
for you.

No work on your part, just plug in your list of contacts and 1 month later you'll be raking in $____ each month. Just sit back and let the checks roll in.

MAYBE that works for some, but how long can it last ? Is every one in the company using the same EXACT sales letter(s) ? Won't it lead to the high drop out rates that seem to plague BOTH network marketing AND internet marketing ?

I can't believe ANY program that basically tells me that they'll build my downline or affiliates list. Just sit back in my easy chair, mail in my check, and behold ... my OWN money making downline and affiliate list.

Even if I send in my 'Monthly Fees' every month .. if I'm 'committed' to sit back and let someone else build MY business, how truly 'committed' am I to MY goals? What am I going to contribute to MY success ?

I'm sorry folks, BUT it IS the person who stares you in face every morning from the mirror. If you 'wait' on someone else to build your business ... Guess how long you'll wait ? How long will it be for YOUR success to start?

Please don't read me wrong, there ARE a LOT of Hard working, people in network marketing AND internet marketing.

Everything I've earned through networking I've put the TIME and EFFORT into it.

I'm no guru or expert in either field ... I'm more a firm believer in HARD work and EFFORT.

GOALS MUST have plans. Writing down goals is ONLY a STARTING point. You MUST implement a plan to reach your goals. Measurable goals ... start out small and build from there.

Get TRAINED with the systems and tools YOUR company offers. The good Network marketing AND internet marketing companies offer training, support, tools, etc.

Just TRY to stick with ONE marketing plan ... it may delay your success if you 'mix and match' training methods. Plus, you'll soon get confused on which program methods go with which program ... thus leading to a confused and frustrated downline.

Phillip Fuller publishes the Dynamite Duo - Biz4Profits and
Quick Pick Ads. In this Mega-Information Age, we're
drowning in words but starving for knowledge! If you're
still struggling to figure out why you're not cashing in,
subscribe today. Learn how to break the Cycle of Defeat:

Want to get noticed? Submit an article for review and if your article is just
what our readers need to hear, we will include it here in our guest experts
spot. Your articles must be on some aspect of online marketing that works.

Submit your articles here.

You could become quite well known.

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Contest Winners September 29 - issue 110

Last weeks question:

How long did Queen Victoria reign?

Answer 64 years

Winner - Brian Hanson, congratulations Brian.

This weeks question:

In what month and year was the Magna Carta signed or sealed and by which English King.

This weeks prize - Free entry FEE into Instant Cash Magnet and one FREE rotation. See the prize here

Last week we also asked a fun question. How long is a piece of string?

We received a variety of interesting answers.. Here are a few.

1. 2X HALF ITS LENGTH - Adrian Brown

2. The length of any piece of string is always infinite. Pamela Heywood
See full explanation: http://www.rathergood.com/guru19.html

These answers are extremely good and quite correct.

Our answer was - As long as you want it to be.

Send your answers to...

Contest Rules: First correct answer we receive WINS!

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You Asked...

Hi Jane and Phil, I'm a fairly new subscriber and I enjoy your newsletter very much, especially the latest article by Lisa Riddell about ad tracking. However, instructions for using ad trackers are written by geeks, who already know how they work. It's very difficult for anyone new to computers to understand geek speak, even when translated. I feel more people, especially the newbies, would use ad trackers if they could get clear, easy to understand instructions, as to how to use them. For most ad trackers I've looked at, the how-to-use instructions are pretty vague. Cheers, Patrick

Patrick OBrien

Our answer....

Some ad tracking systems are not user friendly and make the process of setting them up too complicated.

Smart marketers know that you must track your ads so you know what is working and what isn't. Not only does ad tracking save you time, it helps you to gather a list of places you can advertise with and then when you spend your money you have a much better chance to gain the results you want.

The simplest ad tracking system we have uncovered so far is to be found at ISOR. If Jane can use this one, trust me, anyone can. Best of all she didn't even have to ask me how to use it - Huge Plus smiley.jpg (1068 bytes)

It's called
AdAlyzer. Check it out here

Hope this helps...

If any readers need more help on setting up their ad tracking, I will set up a web page that steps you though the process. Just let me know via our reader feedback below.

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Yes, J?

Did you see that ridiculous agreement George tried to pass off on us as a JV?

Yeah J, It was a joke. That definitely won't get get off the ground.

P, You mean we're in agreement? What's happening here? We rarely agree on anything.

well, J. I guess you and I have the makings of a joint venture.

Really, P? Well then how about you take me out to dinner - you're treat.


yes, P?

don't start...

Phil Basten & Jane Mark
Publishers - WebPro Times

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Reader Feedback

Tell us what you think of the WebPro Times. Let us know how we can improve the ezine, plus tell us the marketing tools that are working for you so we can share them with our readers. Be sure to include your URL in your tip.

Email us here...

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Web Pro Times is Published by
Jane Mark & Phil Basten
JPE Advertising

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